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In preparation for this event CADRE’s SWITCH Journal has decided
to dedicate the issues leading up to the conference to address each of
the symposiums themes, the first of which being “Transvergence”.
As an introduction to both SWITCH Issue 20 and the Festival, CADRE Professor
Rachel Beth Egenhoefer chatted (literally) with ISEA Director Steve Dietz
and ISEA’s Academic Symposium Chair Joel Slayton.
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Are we
all here? |
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Hi
Rachel |
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Joel? |
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hello |
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Horray! We're all here! |
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I am eating a sandwich
while we talk transvergence. |
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Is the sandwhich transvergent? |
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No, binary. |
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SWITCH has decided
to gear up for ISEA 06 by addressing each of the conference themes. We've
started with "Transvergence"... Why did you guys choose transvergence
as a theme? |
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From my point of view
the topic reflects upon Silicon Valley |
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How so? |
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Silicon Valley is in
part about developing encounters and new engagements between disciplines.
It is informed by experimentation strategies that require transdisciplinary
investigation. |
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Steve? |
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I agree. Transvergence
is a platform for the new. It is a space/place in the Festival where people
can propose projects that explore the intersection of different disciplines
and the possibilities that creates. |
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So are you defining
transvergence as the intersection of different disciplines? How is this
different from interdisciplinary? |
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Not exactly, intersecting
disciplines is only part of the story. |
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As Steve indicates
it is about new spaces, new tools, new theory that comes from enabling engagements
that otherwise would not happen. |
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I
don't think we want to get too hung up on any definitions. The point is
to be open. |
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Intersection implies
alignments and transvergence is not necessarily about alignments. |
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Yeah, let's not get
hung up. |
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I recently asked Mark
Finnern, if transvergence were an ice cream flavor what flavor would it
be? |
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He said Ben & Jerry's
Cherry Garcia. |
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What does that mean? |
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But historically, interdisciplinary
art or "interarts" has implied the intersection of disciplines
and I read transdisciplinary as more across discplines - not a new form
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but a kind of temporary
autonomous discipline that perturbs the other disciplines, but there are
still engineers and biologists, not enginologists. |
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The cherries, the chocolate
chips, and the vanilla were all seperate entities but combined they transended
to become something new. |
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(see above. new is
not new.) |
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Transvergence is more
about extreme production. |
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What makes it "extreme"? |
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I
think transvergence also tends to imply (but not require) collaboration. |
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I should think it is
more about deviation and redirection that results from combining things. |
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So would you agree
with Cherry Garcia being transvergent? |
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If I had to answer
that question, I would say no. |
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Why? |
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Only
if Cherry Garcia is thought of as a transAction involving ice cream making
and e-commerce. |
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Cherry
Garcia combines elements in a matrix, but transvergence is more about combining
processes than things. |
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My point exactly. |
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This relationship of
process/product is critical. |
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So why is this theme
important now? (or in 2006)? |
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For me, precisely because
it is a place in the Festival for new transActions that we haven't pre-defined. |
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But it's only important
if the work is significant, not because of a term. |
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One reason is that
information culture is ripe with possibilities for redefining the dynamics
of how we produce, experience, consume, share things. |
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So Steve, do you expect
to define them after the festival? |
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The Festival presents
a place for shifting correlations. |
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Not really. |
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I'm never very interested
in defining terms. I'm more interested in trying to understand the work
that artists are actually doing and hope that Transvergence provides a place/space
for this. |
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On a greater scale,
how do you think ideas like this will function? It seems that a lot of institutions
are built on terms and labels... genres of art, departments in a university,
etc. will they be able to exist without labels? |
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A lot of time can get
wasted with definitions-from my point of view the issue is really more about
creating a platform upon which an interesting interplay plays out. |
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No. |
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It's a difficult and
critical issue. |
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There are times when
it's strategic and important to focus on a term/issue and times when it's
ok to let it go. |
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Institutions don't
have the same flexibility that Festivals have, so I think we can highlight
/ spotlight this domain of transvergent work for 2006. |
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If other institutions
then begin to look at it with new eyes, so to speak, and also support it,
then I feel we will have done something postive for the artists and the
public. |
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It's
something that personally I deal with a lot. I find myself checking the
"other" box frequently. |
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There are times when
it is strategic to be strategic and times to be tactical and time to be
romantic. Institutions have to understand themselves in terms of striving
for flexibility in their use of terms. |
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Tactical. |
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Thinking
back to ISEA 2004, the application process was a long list of drop downs
that through a series of questions you categorized yourself into what you
wanted to apply for... |
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will
2006 have the same categorization process or are you looking for people
to come up with their own category? |
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Taxonomies are good
for search engines but not so good for jurying art. |
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It is always a balance,
our goal is to provide opportunity for participation. |
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Let's
talk about ISEA for a minute, what sort of events, spaces, places, will
you be having to explore these questions? |
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Conference, exhbitions,
public art, events ......its a Festival! |
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Also, one of the main
themes of the Festival is the Interactive City, so in that sense we expect
anywhere and everywhere that an artist can imagine to become a site for
work - transvergent and otherwise. |
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The idea is to create
platforms upon which the most exciting work we can feature is included. |
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Right,
but what goes into creating that platform? |
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Well, I think that
is one of the most critical design issues of the 21st century - to echo
Steven Johnson (Emergence). |
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How do you create a
platform that is open enough to allow the unexpected, but has enough parameters
not to be gibberish? |
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(This is also at the
root of C5's work, btw) |
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Designing platforms
is art. |
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Another way to think
about it is the idea of transgressive play. |
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You make rules to play
Sims or whatever... |
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And then the users
take that "platform" and make something else of it. |
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I hope both the public
and aritsts will do that with the ZeroOne San Jose Festival. |
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So
you want your rules to be broken? |
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Of course, that is
way transvergence is not simply about fitting this into that, but more about
emergence of an framework based on some defined dynamics that a particular
platform enables. |
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I expect the platform
to be used in many ways that are not entirely anticipated. |
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Broken is the easiest
solution. I would hope for more than that. |
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How
do you see the public (non-conference participants) interacting with these
ideas- what do you think they will take away from the madness? |
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I think there is nothing
like experience and by and large the general public in the U.S. hasn't had
the ability to experience at least a decade of really innovative work -
which is why the Festival is so important. |
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Artwork always operates
on multiple levels. I expect that to be the case here as well. . |
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There are many reads
a work can have and within the Festival framework these will range from
critical perspectives to simply enjoyment and celebration. |
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I fundamentally think
- hope - that the public will have an "aha" moment. That's what
you're talking about. They'll like something - and dislike other work. But
at least they'll have an experience base to build on besides words. |
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I hope they don't always
know what their looking at or experiencing. |
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Can't classify it within
simple terms. |
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Is
it too utopic to hope that these ideas will then flow over into larger social
issues, that we will see transvergent ways of thinking about government,
science, politics, economy, social service, education, etc... |
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It's not too utopic
but it may be disappointing on a practical level. :) |
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If we avoid romanticizing
about transvergence as good or bad, then perhaps it is easier to see its
insertion into these areas as well. |
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But seriously, of course,
we both believe in some kind of utopic possibility of art. |
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Although Joel would
probably gag if he had to say the word. :) |
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UTOPIC... |
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Yes, that was hard. |
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You
okay?... need to take a breath? |
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But imagining alternative
systems, including the political and social, are very much a part of lots
of work that will be at ZeroOne. |
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Utopic and transgressive.
Raw and cooked. |
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I do believe investigation/experimentation
does something in that regard, but mostly because it redirects our attention. |
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It's
also what this issue of SWITCH is about. We have contributors from all backgrounds-
education, scientists, artists, futurists... |
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Redirecting attention
or imagining alternative systems? |
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Both. |
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Excellent. |
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How will Switch be
transActive? |
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This
bit of play has been great as an introduction for our issue... do you have
any closing thoughts about Transvergence, ISEA, or the progress of Joels
sandwich? |
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I also had a cherry
pop tart. |
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SWITCH
has things to read, things to discuss, functions online, at a launch party,
and rumor has it this issue also comes with a PDF coloring book of William
Shattner! |
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I would only add that
while I don't think there is any one definition of transvergence, it is
a term that was originally used by Marcos Novak, and he has a very inspiring
point of view and practice around transvergence. |
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http://isea2006.sjsu.edu./thematic.html#trans |
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*See also Marcos Novak,
"Speciation, Transvergence, Allogenesis: Notes on the Production of
the Alien"
http://www.mat.ucsb.edu/~marcos/transvergence.pdf |
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Yes,
we will be adding that to this issue as well. A great starting point! |
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My last thought is
this: perhaps there is more about transvergence that is also about scaling.
about hyper-interdisciplinarity as realized through Xtreme theory-production-process. |
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ok bye! |
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Thanks
guys! |
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Beam me up Scottie! |
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You bet. |
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Thank you. |
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See
you at ISEA 2006... |
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Will we get a chance
to correct our mistakes? |
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Oh yes please! |
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hmmm,
is this part of that cooked and raw anaolgy? |
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I think it's the doubledipping
in the Cherry Garcia... |
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Now I am confused? |
